Some Thoughts on the Butch Davis Firing
Like most of you, I was shocked at the timing of Butch Davis’ firing this week. Something is being hidden in Chapel Hill that came out about the phone record release this week. It could be that he was discovered to have lied to the Board, because they claimed to support him not long ago and they wanted him out before the press examined the records. It could also just be that the large turnover they recently had on the Board has caused a change of heart....but that seems more fantastic. It has also forced the Board there to tell AD Dick Baddour to retire or get fired. Its something big.
Also, like most Tiger fans, I relish in any negative attention on the Tobacco Road Mafia that runs this conference and has continually screwed Clemson over for years. Its always been Blueboods that run the ACC and, frankly, what goes around comes around. Do not forget that it was John Swofford (then UNC’s Athletic Director) who made the presentation in closed session to the ACC directors in 1982 that got us another year of probation from the conference. Clemson defended the accusations, but was asked to leave the room for the final presentation that Swofford made. Maryland and Wake Forest walked out of the meeting because he asked for an anonymous vote for the extra punishment, but Swofford and the Duke representative (who assisted in the meeting) got the extra year of probation they wanted via the 5-2 vote. He then requested that all details be hidden from Clemson and the general public, but the folks at MD and WF told everyone. If the NCAA punishes UNC, every Clemson fan should hammer John Swofford until his phone/inbox/car/head explodes. TDP is on the ACC infractions committee, and you should do the exact same thing to him, if he’s awake in time for a meeting.
Unfortunately, however, this is quite bad for the ACC when you think of how we need to raise the overall football stature of the conference. We lost another good coach, and even though DC Everett Withers was the backbone of that staff, I don’t know if he can keep building on what Butch started. If you want the rest of the ACC to fall apart, which I confess I do all the time sometimes, then its great to see UNC get hammered. If you want the ACC to be less of a joke in football season, which I also want, then you should realize that this makes thing much harder in the near-term. Butch Davis might not be the best gameday coach in this conference, but he can rebuild a program, he evaluates talent like his mentor Jimmy Johnson did, and he recruits his ass off. Ten years ago you barely heard that we were going against UNC for any recruit, and now its almost every one of them. The ACC needs higher caliber coaches like that to get anywhere, because fan support doesn’t come before wins.
Consider for a moment the Butch tenure at UNC. He inherited complete crap leftover from Torbush and Bunting. They were terrible by any definition when Bunting left. Butch is not a dynamic enough coach to win immediately with no talent, so he had to recruit and that takes time. He was getting that much done. He was doing well enough with this that I believed he'd have won 10 games and be off to a football school by now. UNC was going to add more facilities improvements too, and they already have some of the best in the conference because of the basketball dollars.
Butch’s worst decisions were to hire John Blake, who everyone knew was dirty as hell, and John Shoop, who couldn’t build a quality offense in the NFL or anywhere else. He got what he paid for with Blake, and for that I have no sympathy. Blake is just the gift that keeps on giving, ask Oklahoma fans.
UNC had a choice last August when the Marvin Austin news broke, play them and take the punishment later or sit them out and avoid forfeiting games. Well, who gives a damn if you have to forfeit a game 2 years later that you won on the field? Winning on the field is what counts. UNC decided to sit half the team and play freshmen against LSU and nearly won the game without them. If UNC had the entire defense of potential draftees on the field, they win that game. UNC likely wins a minimum of 9 games, and possibly 10-11 and the ACC with the whole team out there in 2010. UNC goes to a BCS game and rakes in dollars, and given the talent they have, has a great chance to win the Orange Bowl. Who gives a shit if you have to vacate the wins 2 years later? You got the dollars and the press, the recruits, and the respect nationally for the conference.
I hope that when Auburn finally gets the anvil dropped on them that they'll do the right thing and give the NCAA the finger.
Also, if Butch isn’t fired this week, you could make the case that they win 9 games this year because of all the freshmen talent they were forced to play last year. As crappy as the ACC is, that could be enough to win the ACC Title again.
Now what do they have to show for his time and hard work in Chapel Hill? One shitty bowl win over a clusterfuck Tennessee program.
How does it affect us? Directly it only means we’ll face a different coach in ’11 when UNC comes here. It likely means they won’t be playing as well, so it could be an easier game. Long-term, I don’t know for sure because we don’t know how Withers or the next guy will do, but its likely going to be a downgrade if they go outside the program to hire. A big name coach won’t come in with the NCAA swinging the axe over his head, and if its bad enough to fire the HC in July, then there are scholarship losses coming. Long-term UNC will take a big hit, but the cupboard isn’t empty right now. UNC has 23 of the 24 freshmen they signed last cycle in school already (Ellerbe is not), and if they’re under scholarship they must be released by the school, and likely the NCAA, before they can transfer without sitting a year. Clemson wanted Devonte Brown (DT) bad and couldn’t get him, and I suspect, given the number crunch, that he would be the only one we really pushed for from that class. LB Travis Hughes is another we went hard after late. Brandon Ellerbe was a commitment to CU who flipped to UNC, but we took the screws off him, and his offer was moreso to entice Stephone Anthony.
In the current cycle, we’re so full that I don’t know who we’d go try to get aside from OG JJ Patterson. Clemson doesn’t really want TE Justin Meredith, its JJ McCullough or nothing for us at that position because we have too many already.
But a weaker program in Chapel Hill only makes things easier for Clemson to get where it needs to be.
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Really hoping that UNC takes a big hit for this. I also think that it is time for the ACC to force Swofford out. Looking at the rest of the leagues, with the TV deals each conference is getting, the current conference expansion screw up, and about every other idiot thing he has done, its time for him to be gone.
Don't give up, don't ever give up ~ Jim Valvano
Who is responsible for hiring the ACC Commissioner?
We have 8 teams not in NC.
"If I had one thing that I'd want in a football team it would be toughness."
-Danny Ford
Question then...
So, the NCAA never ruled Austin and those guys ineligible or told UNC it was in their best interest not to play them?
Secondly, is there a precedent for giving the NCAA the finger? I realize Auburn just did but, we don’t know what their punishment is going to be yet or if they are even guilty (wink wink).
If Auburn was SMU-style punished for this would it change your mind?
"If I had one thing that I'd want in a football team it would be toughness."
-Danny Ford
UNC held them out first
In August, when Austin’s tweets blew up their universe, UNC suspended him for rule violations. The other group were declared ineligible by UNC, not the NCAA, the week after. Others were being held out as precautions.
The NCAA didnt hand out sanctions on players until late September, but took their sweet time in investigation, while UNC lost games they shouldnt have. UNC banished Austin first before the NCAA did, and they banished Greg Little and Robert Quinn themselves in October.
The NCAA doesnt name a football national champ, so if you want to continue to claim the national title, you can do it and they cant sanction you. However, you have to give the crystal ball back to the BCS.
If Auburn gets SMU level punishment, which they wont because the NCAA will never do that again, then I’d still have done it for a title.
Now I can understand
that whole 1982 thingy from a Clemson standpoint…..
But can anyone else point out how non Tobacco Road programs have been getting screwed? I keep on hearing it but never hear any specific details.
Otherwise, yea I agree this is a blow to the ACC in the short term. However, if your Tigers and my Cavs along with headliners FSU and UM continue to improve, along with GT’s and VPI’s continued success (grrrr), then I think the conference will be fine.
It’s too bad though, having a good UNC football program would have really helped to shed some of “it’s just a bball conference” clowning we got.
Oh well, all the more opportunity for the rest of us to pick up the slack because unless they get a strong Tedford-Harbaugh type hire that understands and works within the schools culture WHILE getting good talent and winning games, the Tar Heel program is in limbo for YEARS.
it starts with basketball and baseball , not one person can give me a good reason why those two ACC tournaments should be played in the shit heels backyard . then it goes to simple officiating within the conference and the forever embedded memory of Rick Barnes taking off his jacket pretending to go on the court because the Tigers entire fucking bench had fouled out . THE ENTIRE FUCKING BENCH. I have never seen that before or since.
Does scheduling count?
Look what was done this year after 2 marquee non-conference games.
FSU vs OU – Next weekend, on the road @ Clemson
AU vs Clem- Next weekend, host FSU
There was an article last year in the local paper about the lack of holding calls against FSU’s opponents.
Remember, FSU was one of the sack leaders last year, and had one of the top pass rushes in the country. With that in mind, FSU’s opponents last year were only call for 5 holding calls over a period of 6 games, and 418 plays. That’s about .83 per game. Wake and Duke opponents got 1 per game.
My point of the scheduling (which I'm sure you know)
is that you want to put you conference in the best position to shine against top non-conf opponents. The reality is that the conference games are much more important, and you don’t want 2 of your “marqee” football programs looking ahead. Both teams should have been given a little recovery time with a Duke, Uva, WF.
From an FSU perspective, it’s a tough stretch. Even if we manage to get by OU, we will be beat up, and have less of a chance @ death valley. If Swofford truly cared about national respect in football, he would certainly attempt to schedule better.
UNC punishment
There is plenty of talent in the ACC-Clemson, FSU, Miami, Va Tech, Ga Tech to make our football more notable than in the past. There is absolutely no reason why the ACC should not hammer NC when the penalties come. I, for one, intend to let TDP know how I feel. I hope the rest of you will do the same.
Not sure on the smart thing to do
First of all, I have no love for UNC and they can go to hell. I damn sure remember 82 and generally wish them nothing but the worst. However much fun it is to think about shafting them, I’m not sure that it would be the SMART move.
While a lot of fans remember what UNC did, probably more don’t. What UNC did was wrong… kicking a fellow conference member while they were down. UNC is probably going to face some severe sanctions… you have to believe that with the sudden firing that more trouble is coming to light soon. Does Clemson simply return the favor?
The more I think on it, the more I think no. The thing that I hate the worst about UNC is that they are such sanctimonious bastards… that they think that they are so much better than we are. That’s GONE now and will be for many years. Sure, we could try and add a year’s probation (maybe we could even get it) and enjoy that extra year. OR we could seize the high ground. Clemson should call a meeting (just like UNC did) and then state that in spite of UNC’s cheating that the ACC resolve NOT to punish them further. Then we can hold it over their heads forever!
That’s revenge my friends!
That's the very mindset...
that typifies the fight that we have lost that Vance Hammonds is speaking of in TI’s latest, “In their own words”. As they did us, so we should do them. Ask Coach Ford what he would like for us to do. This is not life and death…its a game and we should sieze every opportunity to keep them down as long as possible.
by tigertooth on Aug 1, 2011 10:54 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Sir,
I would start a slow-clap for you if I could.
by PenthouseTiger on Aug 1, 2011 11:32 PM EDT up reply actions
I just do not see the ACC brand doing anything for us in football.
The coots argue that they are great because they are in the SEC. We have to be great in spite of the fact that we are in the ACC. If we are going to succeed, then we have to create our own brand. It would help us to have some great rivalries that brought national attention, but other than that, we have to forget about the ACC lifting us up. Whip the ACC, whip the coots, and win the bowl game. Do that and we will be ok regardless of what the rest of this lame conference does.
"Clemson is coming!" - Stephone Anthony
by Tigerplowboy on Aug 2, 2011 10:09 PM EDT via mobile reply actions

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