Big Boy Football: Roster Management 2012
A lot of people are going to react poorly to articles on this subject because they feel that anyone who chooses Clemson should be given his 4 years to play and make a difference, or that anyone who chooses Clemson becomes divine by donning the Orange. Unfortunately, serious programs don't follow that mold. You cannot win football games with players who don't play, and you only get 85 spots. Therefore, many won't like this discussion.
We do not support throwing off guys out of malice. However, major programs make it clear, in one way or another, that dead weight can't be retained. Rulebreakers get second and third chances here over the years, but at major programs that extra chance is not a given. Some get by with pushing players onto medical exemptions. Some outright tell guys who don't have a chance to contribute that they should go elsewhere for a chance at PT. It needs to be made clear, whether done tactfully or under another guise. If you want to win the big games, then guys who are passed on the depth chart need to look around. We need to fill our spots with youth that may contribute later.
I think its pretty easy to see by looking at the scholarship roster and the depth chart, along with the snap totals, who will make a difference in the near future and who should think about going somewhere else. Most folks seem dumbfounded when a player is suggested as needing to transfer, especially through orange-tinted glasses, but its not hard to figure out. We don't put those glasses on here too often, so we'll take a look at who should think about going elsewhere to finish his career in football and a few who we think have to be at least considering it.
We don't update the Scholarship roster throughout the season, but this is the final version from August. The only one missing is Fajgenbaum, who we heard somehow got a scholarship as the long snapper via Catman's twitter account in August. We don't know who went off to put him on.
Clemson currently has 16 guys leaving, with Buice, Desmond Brown, and McNeal already gone. Dwayne Allen will likely go to the NFL. There have been numerous musings that Ellington would go, but I do not think anymore that he would or should. He needs to work on his pass receiving to make it in the NFL. We'll say we have 20 spots open, then the possibility of a walk-on scholarship coming open (if Fajgenbaum is on). Clemson currently sits at 20 recruits, and is actively pursuing several more. Even allowing for the likelihood of Josh Brown and Javarius Leamon going Prep/JUCO, there may not be enough spots for the ones we sign. We'll have to push some out via transfer or outright dismissal for "violation of team rules" if they screw up at all.
At QB, we'll have Boyd and Stoudt of course in '12. We have Tony McNeal on RS with Morgan Roberts. Chad Kelly is coming in. That's a lot of youth, and one will eventually leave. It obviously won't be Boyd. I find it unlikely that the staff would nudge a RS or true freshman out the door without any development time, but the 3rd string battle with Chad Kelly will determine who stays and who transfers away. I don't think Kelly is an automatic RS. You don't need 5 of them either. Three plus a walk-on emergency will do, because the odds are that no one behind 2nd string will ever play in a season. My gut says McNeal eventually leaves CU, because I do think he's capable of winning somewhere, but I'd be a bit surprised if it happened this offseason.
At RB, we have AE first, Howard 2nd. We may or may not have Bellamy, who would be 2nd team if he got his shit together. I'm not going to fault Dabo for kicking him off outright, but I do hope Mike gets his head screwed back on and plays here. Roderick McDowell is 4th and is a RS Junior. I thought he could do it when we signed him from Sumter, but I was wrong. He hasn't shown much promise since Christian gave him a concussion, and I doubt he ever does here. I'd encourage him to look elsewhere so we could take another RB.
Brandon Ford will take Allen's spot as a flexed TE in most sets, and Cooper got some PT this year as a line TE. MacLain will push for time as well, and I'd imagine JJ McCullough gets a RS. The player they passed is Darrell Smith, another of Dabo's Bama boys who isn't going to pan out here.
Joe Craig took a RS last year, and is physically underdeveloped. He needs a good S&C program. I expected him to use his great open field speed to make a few plays this year, but has been outrecruited....even passed by Adam Humphries. His off-the-field trouble was blown up by the press, some of it erroneously (thus the reason why Dabo let him stay), and we hear that the girl involved was kicked out of Oklahoma State (where she was before CU) for a similar altercation. No beat writer would confirm that (we asked, and they hadn't bothered to follow up on it) or whether she was still at CU now or was expelled totally by CU, though we heard the latter happened. I would not push a RS Frosh out, but if he doesnt produce next season he should try to play elsewhere.
Looking at the production at WR, one could imagine another freshman deciding to leave. Beating Watkins and Hopkins out for a starting spot will be impossible next year. Jaron Brown will return. Germone Hopper will push hard enough that we may not be able to RS him. Unfortunately the ball only goes around so many times, and we've got several who are very highly rated. It will be tough to keep them happy, and I would not be surprised if this is a reason why another transfers.
Matt Sanders was browbeaten by Brad Scott during his time here, and we believe he has thought of quitting many times. He stuck with it, but will graduate and should give up his extra year of eligibility. He will not contribute here at OG or Center. The rest of the players up front are too young to make a call on at this point.
There are no other Juniors who I could see leaving school earlier. The rest is on youngsters that are difficult to make a call on.
At DT, we have a few guys who aren't taking redshirts but still aren't playing. Some got passed on the depth chart. Tavaris Barnes was a steal from FSU, a DE who we knew would grow into a DT. He hasn't put on the weight yet. I think he should stay, but he has to produce either at DE or DT. We're adding too many off RS and recruits. Shatley still can't move his feet, but he isn't going anywhere and will be on the 2-deep at NG. Youngsters Josh Watson, who had a year of Hargrave too, and Tra Thomas have already been passed by true freshmen Grady Jarrett and DeShawn Williams. Maybank and Rod Byers will come off RS, and with Watkins, maybe DJ Reader, Dodd and (possibly) Brown, we've got a lot of guys for what is usually a 5-man rotation at DT. T. Thomas has had attitude "discussions" with the staff. We think Watson and Thomas should leave.
Vic Beasley is a unique case of a great athlete who has no position. He played more defense in HS, and was recruited by Auburn for OLB. He picked Clemson to play TE, but wasn't cutting it there. He got moved back to play Bandit DE/Jack LB, but he doesn't have the weight to play the position in a 4-man front. He's not going to pass Willard outright next season, or Corey Crawford at Bandit. I hope Vic stays here, puts on the weight and excels, but one has to think the thought of transfer has crossed his mind.
Justin Parker was a guy we all wanted at LB last year. He played in 2010 and should not have done so, and didn't play much this season either, even after Steele said "the light came on" in Spring ball. Considering Steele's obvious predilection to play the starters and rarely any backups, along with the fact that he's behind Christian at SAM (who is rarely on the field anyway since we play more Nickel), one also has to think he may decide to transfer.
Spencer Shuey is too slow to play MLB here outside of goal line situations, but contributes on ST. Colton Walls is listed at LB, but I think he either ends up a ST guy or Fullback. At one position he could contribute, but given our pitiful use of Diehl this year I doubt he would at FB. I doubt either of those two leaves CU.
I don't think its at all fair to point out young guys who haven't had much chance yet, but theres your names for who may need to look around. You're not going to keep 40-something freshmen/RSs that we currently have on the roster for 4 years. Some have been passed due to themselves, and some outrecruited. If you want to get to the next level, its time to make tough choices for the program.
(Now don't go losing your damn mind asking "OMG IS ____ GONNA TRANSFER?" everywhere)
43 comments
|
0 recs |
Do you like this story?
Comments
Good read
I’m of the opinon that if they aren’t getting the PT but are good players they should go somewhere that they can excel at. I want them to do well not just for Clemson but also for themselves which is why I have no problem with them leaving if it’s in the best intrest. I truly truly hope that we don’t lose Peake or Bryant as they are both gamers and will fill our two deep greatly in the coming years. I too feel that McDowell should probably leave. He is unremarkable and truthfully, I like Howard much more and shoue AE return and Bellamy get his head right then we’ll have a very reliable 2 deep at this position. Bringing in Brooks, also supposed to be a very very good player, simply leaves too many players here.
Hate to lose anyone but if it’s the best thing for them and us then i say go where you can play. Like you said, big boy football.
Why would someone not like that piece?
My take is if we misevaluated someone, but they show up, give their best effort, and do not cause trouble, then we have to live with them if they want to stay. There is nothing wrong with throwing someone off who is breaking the team rules or not putting forth much effort, and there is nothing wrong with telling someone he aint gonna play if he aint gonna play. That is just being honest.
I have a big problem with throwing someone off who we misevaluated, but who shows up and gives it his all at every practice. Not his fault that we misevaluated him. Now, we should tell that player he will probably not play, and that he needs to transfer if he wants to play, but that is about all you can do, IMO. If word gets out among the HS coaches that a guy is being kicked off the team because he is not good, then we just made recruiting that much more difficult. My guess is that most would transfer once they realized they were not going to see the field because who would want to go through all of those practices and offseason conditioning programs if you were not going to play?
"Clemson is coming!" - Stephone Anthony
by Tigerplowboy on Dec 14, 2011 9:28 AM EST via mobile reply actions
Agreed
However if we own up the fact that we made the mistake and help them find a better fit then we keep our image intact and might even improve it as they will see thta we don’t jsut leave you high and dry but try and find a good fit for them so that they can excel somewhere else. Most of our recruits come because they believe that Dabo and co. want what’s best for the kid, not just the team. This could be another opportunity to reinforce that.
Plenty of guys go through all that and don't play.
Look at the full roster. It is full of guys you never heard of. They work with the team their whole time at school, while not getting it for free, or ever seeing the field.
I wonder if Vic Beasley is going to end up being another Rendrick Taylor
Monster of an athlete, but no real place for him on the team. I hope we don’t end messing him up like Rendrick.
Don't give up, don't ever give up ~ Jim Valvano
I agree
It’s one thing to be lazy and cause trouble, it’s another to have been poorly evaluated. I don’t think there’s anything wrong with telling a player, “hey, thanks for all of your effort, but it just doesn’t look like what we do is a good fit for you. You can stay on and compete but we’d be more than happy to help you find somewhere you can potentially be a better fit”.
I would imagine some players would go along with that and I imagine others would be content to finish out their education at Clemson and have their football playing days end at that. It also could motivate some guys who have talent but have not been showing; possibly like a David Beasley/Rod McDowell.
by judge jeff davis on Dec 14, 2011 9:32 AM EST reply actions
Interesting article
Glad to get some knowledgeable perspective on this, as it’s something we all think about with this young team. I tend to agree with most of what you said, especially with the DT’s- it has to be evident to a few that 1. True freshman played in front of you and 2. The staff is aggressively bringing in more studs.
At WR, I’d be extremely surprised if all these guys stick around. But then again, if Andre leaves, we may be passing 50 times a game next year anyway. 35-40 completions is enough to go around (I kid, I kid). Safe to say Bryant, who’s been through hell and high water to get here, won’t leave(could be wrong of course). Peake is the guy I’m iffy about, but he is a local guy.
Bellamy, (sigh)
Barnes, I think will be a better SDE than DT.. Maybe needs more development, but I could see him fitting in well over there with Goodman and a recruit that we hope to get in a couple of weeks.
As for LB’s, I mean we only play 2 on the field at a time, 90% of the time. That’s just gotta be frustrating for them in general..In my opinion not redshirting a guy like Parker gives him more incentive to leave, he won’t waste a yr of eligibity with that redshirt elsewhere.
We will see!
"Just because you've had 2 or 3 good games doesn't mean anything right now. It's not the first 3 games you're going to be remembered by." - The Chad
I do not think Bryant or Peake will leave because they are only true freshmen, and will probably see a lot more action next year.
In a perfect world, we play with reshirt sophs and up, and most giys spend two years in the system before they really make an impact. The only way either would leave is if Hopper comes in and passes them on the depth chart, and I don’t see that.
"Clemson is coming!" - Stephone Anthony
by Tigerplowboy on Dec 14, 2011 1:42 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
You should try it and see the responses
might be good for a laugh.
LOL
that’d be my guess. I think most of them honestly think you’re a coot.
I've certainly been called a Coot many times over there. But I don't think most people are stupid enough to actually believe it.
I think “Coot” is just their way of saying “F.U. for pissing reality into my Kool-Aid.”
So it seems
I am not a member on that site but I remember reading once when you were in a heated argument/disagreement with one or more of them and wanted to be able to go on and tell you that it was probably pointless to continue posting. Nothign you were saying was seemingly getting through to them.
Hey Razz, did you hear!
Tommy Bowden just took the head coaching job at . . . nowhere!
The Reality of D1 FB
Props for having the balls to post this article. Somehting you won’t see on ESPN. The Big 10 has been critical of SEC powers for oversigning then running kids, and one of their fans has even got a site about it, oversigning.com. Bet their asses are really chapped with LSU and Bama in the BCS CG.
I’ll admit that I’m unconfortable listing guys that may need to leave, but its the reality of the game. I don’t have a problem with pulling a kids scholly after four years if he can’t play, but otherwise its unethical if the kid’s only problem is a lack of talent.
There is nothing wrong with telling the players the truth.
Actually, the kid who was passed on the depth chart probably already knows the score, so it is probably not a surprise.
"Clemson is coming!" - Stephone Anthony
by Tigerplowboy on Dec 14, 2011 1:50 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
I don't think you can get rid of guys based on what some recruit is "supposed" to do
Brooks may be coming in as a back and be all that, but he hasn’t played yet. McDowell was a big deal, but has barely seen the field. Bellamy was a big deal and hasn’t done much, and may be gone. Justin Parker has been unremarkable. Parker and McDowell were both top guys in the state.
There is just no telling what a recruit will do. In addition, someone who is unremarkable for years sometimes turns it on as an upperclassman – Jaron Brown for example. He got good all of a sudden.
I don’t see the problem with pulling scholarships, as long as the kid wasn’t told it was 4 years coming in. he should be told he has one year paid for, and he has to earn it next year and every year. He has to athletically earn the right to get school paid for, just like someone on academic scholarship has to make grades or else pay his own way.
If I had not kept my grades up, Clemson would have pulled my academic scholarship for lack of performance (and it was not a a full free ride.). No one complains about that, but for some reason if its an athlete it is suddenly unfair and unethical?
don't think you can compare athletics to academics.
If the coaches tell a recruit he will lose his scholarship if he is not as good as they think he is, then that recruit will go elsewhere. Much more competition for athletes than smart kids, so the athletes get a better deal.
"Clemson is coming!" - Stephone Anthony
by Tigerplowboy on Dec 14, 2011 1:47 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
I think coaches have to tell them that
because scholarships are awarded annually.
My point is that I disagree with the idea that is somehow morally “wrong” to pull a scholarship from a player who is not performing well enough to deserve one. You get it for one year, and if you do not meet the requirements, you don’t get it the next year.
If a kid is not good enough, then by all means he can leave. That is the point.
Yes it might cost you other recruits who go elsewhere where they believe they will get a free ride no matter what they do.
Saw a piece on Saban's recruiting tactics
Supposedly, he sits each recruit down in his office, on their official, and makes sure they understand that an athletic scholarship is only a 1 year commitment.
*I think i saw that on ESPNU
One Big Problem
I agree in general but the NCAA makes it MUCH harder to glean out marginal players with the sit out one year dumb-ass rule. No kid should have to sit out for transferring, I don’t care what the rational is. It is blatantly unfair to the players and creates more issues for coaches to deal with.
Resolve that problem and many of these lower level players leave on their own.
not having penalties would have consequences too
Imagine a kid grows up an Ohio State fan, but if he went to Ohio State he’d be sitting for 2 years behind an awesome starter. He instead goes to a school that isnt as good but runs a similar system and starts as a freshman and sophomore. Upon the graduation of the Ohio State starter, the player transfers. Ohio State would get a guy with 2 years of starting experience while not having to hold a roster spot for him for those 2 years while the other school would likely be screwed.
by PenthouseTiger on Dec 14, 2011 8:47 PM EST up reply actions
Understood
However, my issue is that this SHOULD be about the student/athletes, not making sure the school is “protected” from kids who 1) don’t want to be there 2) have better options at another school. If a kid goes to Miami of Ohio for two years, is successful enough to be wanted by OSU, why shouldn’t he be able to go? Because it “damages” MofO? For a young man to transfer after two years of being around his teammates, schoolmates, teachers, coaches would be unusual; too deep of relationships built unless it is CLEARLY in this kids best interest to move on. Coaches do it, professionals do it, so why penalize a young man (or woman) for trying to improve his or her opportunities. Would it cause some angst periodically…. perhaps. Any more than what Graham just did to Pitt? I am about the young men and women FIRST and FOREMOST on issues like these. I feel we all should be.
because then it's minor league football without a CBA
You’re asking for free agency. Great players would move to higher profile programs every year and players that didn’t cut it would be dropped. How would you stop coaches from recruiting kids at other colleges? How could you possibly keep track of those interactions and make sure money isn’t changing hands? What’s Sammy Watkins worth to Auburn, Alabama, or USC right now?
We have never run them off but.........
Seems that a lot of schools do. That’s why Alabama is able to offer about every kid in HS football, I think. A lot of kids disappear at SC. Maybe keeping them no matter what helps our recruiting. Right now by my count we are one over – without any walk-on scholarships except Catanzaro. Do you have a # on Sander’s grocery bill $/played snaps ratio?
by Lowndes Shingler on Dec 15, 2011 12:18 AM EST reply actions
Fajgenbaum and Kantrell Jones are also walk-ons
though it may have been Jones who went off for Phillip. We can’t go over 85.
Lowndes Shingler
I have just joined this website. I am very interested in the saga of Lowndes Shingler. I noticed someone has the screen name Lowndes Shingler. Do you care to offer any information in that regard?
Spencer Benton
Spencer is a redshirt junior, I think he has probably graduated or will, i assume that he will be gone next year especially with Pinion coming in expecting to be kicking off and likely punting in any case.
That's what I believe as well
Heard Pinion can really drill the ball.
Lakip can too
We don’t need 3 guys who can kick off.
by PenthouseTiger on Dec 18, 2011 5:10 PM EST up reply actions
How does it work?
When a player graduates with eligibility left? Surely we don’t take all of them who want to come back & play after graduation__AE has been my hero this year. He cracked his head on the other teams D at the line of scrimmage on most plays this year but kept plugging away & was able to squeeze through in some games. Doesn’t look as fast as last year but still light years ahead of the other RBs. I’d like to watch him another year.
by Lowndes Shingler on Dec 16, 2011 12:00 AM EST reply actions
If he stays, he has to take graduate level courses for pursuit of a Masters.
He doesnt have to finish that Masters though.
I think the question was this (and I'd like to hear your thoughts too)...
If a player isn’t likely to contribute much and has graduated but still has eligibilty, do the coaches pull their scholarship? And would doing so have negative repercussions for Clemson (especially from high school coaches)?
My take: I can’t think of anybody who had their schollie pulled after graduation, but I think a few people were very clearly shown the door after graduation. I can’t imagine high school coaches would get to upset about that.
They can, but I can't recall a situation where they have.
Not from memory. I know a few who have been nudged out when the coaches made it clear they should just go start real life.
I dont see what negatives it would bring other than pissing off a player who may transfer and smear you in the press. Usually the press doesnt pay much attention to a nobody player complaining.

by 
















