Da'Quan Bowers vs. Kyle Wilber
Posted this on BloggerSoDear, wanted to get Clemson's fans opinions.
Recently, Da'Quan Bowers has been getting a lot of press for his impressive performance in single games, as well as for the entire season. This is not only on a regional level, but a national level as well form the talking heads on Fox, ESPN and the blogosphere.
Now I am going to preface this by saying that Bowers deserves every bit of praise that he gets for what he is doing at Clemson and possibly even more. He has certainly had a great campaign so far, but my question is why Kyle Wilber is not getting the same kind of recognition at least inside the conference.
After the jump BSD breaks down the stats of Da'Quan Bowers and Kyle Wilber to see if Bowers stats are really that more impressive than Mr. Wilber's.
First of all, let's take a look at Da'Quan Bowers stats on the year.
| G | Solo | Assisted | Total | Total/G |
|---|---|---|---|---|
| 6 | 19 | 14 | 33 | 5.50 |
| G | TFL | TFL Yards | TFL/G |
|---|---|---|---|
| 6 | 14.5 | 93 | 2.42 |
| G | Sacks | Sack Yards | Sacks/G |
|---|---|---|---|
| 6 | 7.5 | 61 | 1.25 |
| G | Passes Broken Up | QB Hurries | Fumbles Forced | Kicks/Punts Blocked |
|---|---|---|---|---|
| 6 | 1 | 7 | 2 | 0 |
These numbers are extremely impressive, especially the TFL and the number of sacks on the year which lead all FBS players. His game this weekend against Maryland garnered him the ACC Defensive Lineman of the week award (4 TFL, 3 sacks, 6 tackles).
Now let's take a look at Kyle Wilber's stats for the year.
| G | Solo | Assisted | Total | Total/G |
|---|---|---|---|---|
| 7 | 26 | 22 | 48 | 6.86 |
| G | TFL | TFL Yards | TFL/G |
|---|---|---|---|
| 7 | 13.5 | 42 | 1.93 |
| G | Sacks | Sack Yards | Sacks/G |
|---|---|---|---|
| 7 | 5.0 | 28 | 0.71 |
| G | Passes Broken Up | QB Hurries | Fumbles Forced | Kicks/Punts Blocked |
|---|---|---|---|---|
| 7 | 2 | 1 | 3 | 1 |
Wilber has 15 tackles more than Bowers on the year, 1 less TFL and 2.5 less sacks. The tackles for Wilber are statistically relevant, as well as the sacks. The TFL are essentially a wash. Bowers has certainly been more impressive in the pass rushing with 7 QB hurries to only 1 for Wilber. This is a result of Wake Forest switching to a 3-4 scheme for the Navy and GT games to help against the option. WIlber has forced a fumble more and has also blocked a kick on the year.
It seems to me, that while Bowers has the better stats on the year, Wilber is not that far behind. Not only that, Wilber has gone up against much better competition than Bowers has on the year. The quarterbacks that Wilber has played are as follow: Sean Renfree, Andrew Luck, Ricky Dobbs, Josh Nesbitt, Christian Ponder, and Tyrod Taylor. Compare that to Bowers, who has gone up against: Cam Newton, Jacory Harris, and T.J Yates. Not exactly the same caliber list.
In the only similar opponent on the year, Presbyterian (who by my own admissions is not the best team to compare), Wilber garnered 8 sacks, 5 TFL, 3 sacks, a blocked kick, and forced a fumble. Bowers had 1 tackle and a pass deflection. This game could certainly be seen as an outlier, and maybe I am missing something were Bowers did not play the entire game, but Wilber was astronomically better than Bowers was in the only shared opponent.
This could also show that Bowers has done more against better teams, but Wilber has done more than his fair share against 3 ranked opponents this year too. He has also shown that he is a more versatile player and can play linebacker if needed as well.
This article doesn't really solve the question that I asked initially. I'm not sure why Bowers is getting more credit than Wilber for a slight statistical advantage. Clemson is 3-3, while Wake is 2-5 so neither team is setting the world on fire. Without looking the stats up, I know that Clemson is a much better team defensively, which means Bowers has a heck of a lot more talent around him than Wilber does, which makes Wilber's stats even more impressive.
As always comments/stats/tips/advice/criticisms are welcome. I would like to see whether I am being a homer towards Wake Forest or if I have a legitimate gripe as to why Kyle Wilber is not getting the name recognition and praise that he deserves.
ETA: It should also be noted that Kyle Wilber has played in one more game than Da'Quan Bowers, which obviously helps inflate his stats.
These opinions are not necessarily those of the Proprietors of Shakin' The Southland.
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Dear Homer...
You are a WF guy right? You should use that intellect. Bowers was the #1 recruit in the nation according to ESPN coming out of high school. Of course ESPN is going to push him out front, if only to say, “Hey look at us…we were right.” And now he leads the nation in two highly viewed statistical categories. Bowers was a guy that two NFL coaches said was ready physically to play in the NFL out of high school – so he’s had the NFL’s attention. Bowers is on a team with greater visibility – a team that was once a traditional football power. Clemson has all the football intangibles WF does not.
Your guy is on Wake Forest.
Right out the gate I’d like to mention I haven’t seen one WF game this year and with the way they have played really don’t intend to watch one the rest of the year if I can help it (might watch the game with Clemson just to see DaQuan dominate). And I’ve never heard of Wilder and I don’t really care. That is probably the case for most CFB fans. Clemson is probably a tier up on the watchability scale so I’m not harping on you there but come on man are you really whining about a player not getting the pub he deserves? You could say that about a player on half the damn teams in D-1. Hell Clemson’s DeAndre McDaniel wasn’t even on the Thorpe Award list last year much less a finalist. I think McDaniel ended up #2 in the nation in picks and he had 100 + tackles – and I don’t think any other Thorpe finalist had 100 tackles.
In just a quick critique of only one small section of your homerism throughout the article, you lose all objectivity in your discussion of PC. 1) Who gives a shit if a guy shows out against PC? 2) “Maybe an outlier”? You actually wrote that. 3) Why the hell would one of your best players even play enough against PC to get eight tackles? (I do think DaQuan played like two series vs. PC not that it matters.)
To reverse a few of your contentions I could write the following:
Your guy’s stats are skewed by one game vs. a terrible D-II team along with an extra game.
Bowers gets double teamed more. He is more recognizable than Wilder so he gets schemed for more often. Teams run away from him. Your team sucks mightily (while Clemson only sucks) so teams don’t take Wilder seriously. He gets his sacks, TFLs at the end of the game when the other teams have their backup QB and OL in the game.**
**I don’t know that any of those things are true expect for the fact WF godawful and Clemson is just awful. But I could write an article to make them look plausible.
Just take solace in the fact you know your guy is good and you can say I told you so on draft day to a few of your friends who didn’t attend WF – if he is a stud DE the NFL will find him even at WF. Don’t write articles using failed logic to make yourself feel a little better about your the current shittiness of your football program because you may or may not have one good football player who may or may not get the national attention he deserves.
With warmest regards,
DaQuan
...not to mention at least some reasonable discussion. I guess I thought wrong.
Wake Forest '12
Mother So Dear
His response is too harsh
I think Wilber does deserve more accolades than he’s getting now. Playing for a weak team and an awful defense is not helping him.
First Response
Was a bit too emotional and harsh, but true. 8 sacks vs PC and 1 extra game inflates the stats. Bowers didn’t play much at all against PC, and we aren’t joking when we say teams are planning for him. He is a beacon of light in an otherwise lackluster performance by our team as a whole.
Again Wilber is good, and will probably be playing on Sunday. Maybe look at the stat again in a few weeks?
TFL Yardage and QB Hurries
Both are important to look at. You call TFL a wash, but it really isn’t a wash because you need to take a look at the yards lost on those plays. QB hurries are also a very good stat to look at biggest a majority of the time a hurry results in an incomplete pass. Bowers has the big edge there.
Bowers has played his best games against our toughest opponents. As Lawtonfunk said, Bowers didn’t really play much against PC. But against Auburn, Miami, UNC, and MD he has been a monster.
Finally, the reason Bowers gets more hype is because he was a big time recruit and has big time pro potential.
I agree that the Hurries are a big stat
Bowers would have the edge there regardless of our games against Navy and GT, but Wilber played an OLB during those two games and dropped back a lot.
Wake Forest '12
Mother So Dear
That's a good point.
I didn’t look at the opponents. Tough to get QB hurries when the other team doesn’t throw the ball.
Still, I think the biggest thing is that Bowers gets hype because he was so hyped out of high school and is finally living up to it.
I'm not dumb enough to think that they are equal...
I was just wondering why Wilber was getting almost no praise for what he has done this year.
I certainly wasn’t trying to take anything away from Bowers, who is one of the best players in the conference.
Wake Forest '12
Mother So Dear
Late to the party
I think Bowers stats are significantly better than Wilber. Since you’re looking at an extra game for Wilber, the per game stats are the better ones to look at. Also, Bowers only played 21 snaps against Presbyterian.
Bowers is getting about an extra half sack a game over Wilber. That’s significant. In fact, it’s nearly 76% more sacks per game than Wilber is getting. Granted these are all small samples and what not, but a half sack a game is a lot when you’re talking about such small values. Also, Clemson opponents have given up 81 sacks on the year so far (half of which come from UNT and Pres). Bowers has had 11% of those (only 2 of his 9 sacks are from UNT and Pres). Wake opponents have given up 74 sacks on the year (with an extra opponent ). Wilbur has had 7% of those. Having to play Navy and GT matters a little, but the TFL stats sort of cancel that argument out.
Same thing with TFL; about an extra half TFL per game. That’s significant also.
Wilber has a lot more tackles (and takles per game), but it’s really hard to tease out how much of that is due to where the plays are run. My guess is that not many people are running towards Bowers, so he’s getting a lot fewer chances at tackles than he would be otherwise.
The sacks, TFL, and QB hurries stats are a better independent indicator of a player just going out and making a play. None of that is the end all be all, obviously, since a lot depends on what the coach is telling the kid to do. But when you couple these stats with a player that had a lot of hype coming into college, you get a lot of hype when he starts to dominate people.
It's because he plays for wake forest.
not trying to hate, but it’s reality. nobody cares about wake forest outside of tobacco road. they were kind of a novelty for a couple of years when they had all those players and won the acc. now they’re just wake forest again. as a side-note, this is the reason big time players don’t want to go there. it isn’t because of any academic standard. it’s because if you play there, the odds are you will be in absolute obscurity for the entirety of your career. it may not be fair, but it’s the truth.

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