Post game impressions of Music City Bowl victory
by DrB on Dec 28, 2009 3:26 AM EST
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Kind of a "blah" game I felt from the Tigers. I did not see alot of emotion in this one that I saw earlier this year, and I suppose the general malaise that infected us fans when we lost the ACCCG did make its way to the team. I did not see much from Kentucky either. I will admit that when its colder than a witch's tit; its hard to get too excited about anything when you live in the South.
This wasnt a game of huge plays, nor outstanding defense. It was more a game that Clemson wanted to win more than Kentucky did. Lets be fair, we didnt want to be there in 2006, and they really did, and they beat our asses for it. We didnt want to be there this year, but neither did they, so it was more like one of those consolation or 3rd place games that you see in basketball tournaments.....at least thats how it felt to me. I didnt see much jumping around from us or them tonight.
Clemson's offense did a pretty good job. We ran the ball well, 180 yards total. I was disappointed that Napier went away from the I-formation plays he had success with earlier with Jamie Harper. However, some of those I-formation plays were actually zone-blocked and Harper cut them back. Most of the time an I-formation play, like the Iso or Power, is straight-up man blocked. Napier went away from them because of the defensive style that KY played, which is essentially a gap-control scheme that is meant to give the I-formation a fit.
However, I'm really disappointed that C.J. Spiller did not get 30 carries in this game. If he had, I dont see how this would've been a contest. He finished with 172 yards all-purpose (15 carries for 68 rushing, 57 receiving, the rest on returns), but shouldve been well over 200. We had success in the "i" and then went to ace formations and zone-run plays only. WHY BILLY? If they can't stop the Isolation when they are playing a gap-control scheme designed to stop that play, then you dont stop running the Isolation. Harper had 8 carries for 79 yards. Ellington was off the map. Sometimes what Napier decides defies common sense.
"I'm kind of speechless right now," Spiller said after his first bowl victory as well. "I'm very happy we've won the bowl game. ... I just wanted to see what it was like to be in a locker room after winning a championship game, and that's what this was -- a championship game."
Parker was 8/14 for 141 yards, which is OK but not great. I don't think much of it was because of KY's secondary, but moreso that our WRs suck and our OL gave up a little bit too much pressure. With it as cold as it was, its hard to throw and catch, and if you give Michael Palmer another chance at that one that bounced off his hands behind the Corner, I think he grabs it.
Defensively, though the stats would say we did fair (277 total, 110 pass, 167 rush), I was not happy. While Kavell Conner, Brandon Thompson, and DeAndre McDaniel all had good games, I wasn't really thrilled with the rest of the unit's play, specifically on the perimeter. The inside guys at DT did their job, especially being down 2 linemen, but again perimeter runs killed us. Thankfully, the Wildcat did not destroy us like it has recently.
Perhaps the best news defensively is that DMac is leaning towards returning, from his postgame:
"I am leaning towards coming back. I feel I'm better than second round. Everybody keeps telling me it's probably second round. We'll know for sure within the next week or so, but I know I'm a good player and I think I'm better than that. It is what it is."
With him and Rashard Hall together, I think we have the best safety tandem in college football. Both are All-American candidates in my opinion. The rest of the secondary performed well, aside from Butler's botched deep coverage for KY's TD pass early (Cover 4 look that rolled into a Cover 3).
Brandon Maye was where tonight? I had heard about a tweaked knee, but Jeremy Campbell did admirably well and on par with Maye's recent play. Still, the Tigers had considerable trouble getting off the field, what with stupid penalties AGAIN, and at the absolute worst times, as well as QB pressure. Our guys could not get a hand on Newton all night. We barely stopped him on the 4th down play at the end.
Some people are going to blabber about the SEC vs ACC bullshit, and ESPN's site says that this is Clemson's 2nd win in 12 SEC games.....which kinda tells you what kind of research ESPN does, or that they just dont count Sakerlina in the SEC. We are 7-6 since 2003 by my count? SEC homers (other than KY fans) all figured that we'd lose to KY because of "superior SEC speed", like douchebag #1 Jesse Palmer, or that it'd be close only because KY sucked and not because Clemson was any good.....Well those people can suck it.
And Dabo can even say he retired a coach.
After the game, Brooks said he told the team he's probably not returning next season. Brooks said he's "80 percent" sure he's not coming back. Last January, Kentucky announced that offensive coordinator Joker Phillips will take over as head coach when Brooks steps down.
"I think it may be time for a change and time for Joker to take over," Brooks said.
I'd have taken 9 wins to start the season, and I'll take it now.
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good thoughts
very puzzled why we’d quit the I-form after destroying them with it. doesn’t football logic dictate that when something as low-risk as that is working, you run it until they stop it?
as for the conference stuff—i am so tired of that shit… i hate every team in the ACC. but god knows i’ll be cheering for them in every SEC matchup this year. ever since i first heard that stupid “SEC” chant from UK fans in 2006.
gotta disagree with you on one thing: i would not have taken 9 wins preseason. my prediction may have been that low, but my expectations surely weren’t given our returning talent and, most importantly, our schedule. 10 wins should be the bar every year.
by box125 on Dec 28, 2009 10:06 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
I couldnt put that on him in year one
but I will put it on him from now on. If he doesnt win 10 next season he’s on a very short rope for year 3. 9-5 would not be acceptable to me again.
by DrB on Dec 28, 2009 11:34 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I’d agree but it’s not like he inherited a mess. He inherited a pretty loaded team with a cake schedule.
by box125 on Dec 28, 2009 12:02 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
He didn't inherit a mess as far as numbers go
but the psychological aspect was a mess. Actually taking over when he did was probably good for the long term. Swinney had to work his butt off, and in turn earned a chance to become head coach. The players saw that rather than a man spinning the tires while waiting for the wheels to fall off in the end. And the schedule was basically the same minus an Alabama or a Va Tech (replaced by a Miami, TCU, and a GT minus Chan Gailey). Add a MTSU which is a step up from a SC State. It’s the same schedule they have played for the past ump-teen years. Clemson had as good a chance those years under Bowden as they had this year, but they didn’t stumble and fall flat on their face like in the past. And that included the annual bizarro loss to the “Turtles” :)
by CTigers77 on Dec 28, 2009 1:35 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
There's something to that
but I still think this team should have been better. Shoot, give back just the Maryland game and we’ve got that 10 wins. Give back scar and it’s 11.
And I know the schedule is generally the same as always—and it’s really always been cake. We’re favored something absurd like 90% of the time we play.
by box125 on Dec 28, 2009 2:40 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Don't get me wrong, the team could have had 10 or 11 wins
The losses to TCU, Ga Tech (twice) and USC were very winnable, and MD was inexcusable (as was any loss to them the last 4 years). And I agree with you with the players he inherited, it wasn’t like Swinney was building the program from the ground up. For the last 4 years, I’ve been concerned with the mental aspect of the team, and this year when in the past the team folded under pressure they didn’t. The main reason in my mind is that when the players needed some one to lead them, they had a head coach that didn’t walk off to the side and look like a kid that got bullied and had his lunch money stolen from him. Instead of waiting for a player to step up and motivate his team, Swinney did that, in turn CJ did that, and the team fed off of that. Bowden at times looked for players to exclusively do that, and he was right that players and team captains are responsible for that, but so is the head coach and the staff. Their was definitely less finger pointing than there was in the past. And finally a coach that was willing to take the hit when the team faltered.
Now that being said, the losses were owned by the team, staff and all. The players can only do so much, the rest falls on the staff. Motivation is only one part of the equation in coaching. The schedule isn’t super hard, and it is cake compared to years past when the schedule was 10 or 11 games. For the most part there are very few top 50 FBS schools that play a schedule harder than Clemson and a great deal play easier schedules. Most of the hardest schedules belong to the bottom schools that are trying to compete with more talelnted teams in the upper half of the FBS division. Miami, Va Tech and FSU faced the stiffest competition outside the ACC this year The rest were either the same as the TIgers (UVA, NCSt, Ga Tech) or easier (BC, UNC). That being said, you are correct in that 10 wins can be had every year if the Tigers continue the trends of recruiting well (not great, but other schools would love to have a lot of the players on this roster) and have a coaching staff that can develop and guide the talent on the field. The fan base and support is a given; it will always be here. What is not is whether this staff can get the job done.
We will see the next 2-3 years. This year they did alright, accomplished a lot of positives while getting their feet wet. It isn’t unfair for any fan expect better results next year because they have set a low bar of nine wins in my opinion. Barring some unforseen circumstances 10 wins isn’t out of the question going forward.
by CTigers77 on Dec 28, 2009 3:33 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
even though i disagree,
that all makes sense. the one spot—other than the obvious, which is where the bar for wins was this year—where my opinion diverges from yours is in giving so much credit to the head coach for “owning” the losses, and here is why:
before the season, i loved what dabo said because it was exactly what i was thinking. he said something along the lines of “this team doesn’t need to be rebuilt, it just needs an oil change, some new tires, etc. there are no excuses, i’m the guy that will be responsible if we don’t win.” (that’s paraphrased)
but then, after the maryland game sitting at 2-3, he said something different. he said something like “this is my first year here, if it’s still like this in 3 years then y’all can fire me.” (paraphrased again) that one didn’t strike everyone else the way it did me, and that’s probably because his preseason comments did not directly mirror their thoughts like that they did mine. it was the first time i saw dabo slip up, and i thought it was a pretty big deal because he went from “we’re ready now” to “i need time to rebuild”—basically pushing the blame onto the players/staff who weren’t doing what he had in mind.
all this being said, don’t get me wrong—i’m happy as hell that we won the bowl game.
by box125 on Dec 28, 2009 4:05 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Oh, I trust me I was critical going back to game one
Even though they won by a big margin, MTSU was giving Clemson fits, and the offense looked awful. That continued al the way to the Maryland game.The Maryland game pissed me off more than any other game. The drama that insued during the bye week was dissappointing, and that is understating the obvious. That was a low point, and I agree with you that he did put the blame on others. And although I agreed with some of it, it was on him, period. I was wondering when the tight ends would actually be used, and given what has happened since that time, they started to use Palmer like he should have been used for the last three years. Even last night, the Tigers should have won by more than 8, CJ should have seen the ball a lot more (in the I formations), and the defense, while it adjusted well in the second half, they still let UK control the tempo way too much. Dabo and his staff has a ways to go, but the time for adjustment is pretty much over. That they will have to do in the off season because when it starts back up in September, people (myself included) will expect more. No more stumbling out of the gate, and next years schedule will not be easier.
by CTigers77 on Dec 28, 2009 4:27 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
The great coaches have gotten it done in year 2
I’m optimistic that the transformation we all want to see will happen next year. That’s my heart speaking louder than my brain, but I guess that’s what being a fan is about (especially a Clemson fan).
by box125 on Dec 28, 2009 4:45 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Yes, they have,
and I would love to see it happen again! That’s why I said a select few, and Clemson is due for another great coach. Let’s hope the current one is up to the task…
by CTigers77 on Dec 28, 2009 4:49 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I thought the team would be 8-4 or 9-3 regular season
Even when the team started with 3 losses in 5 games, I thought they had a realistic shot at running the table, and they did until the USC game. I even took the staff turnover and relative inexperience of Napier and Swinney into account. The Maryland loss was a result of that aspect (lack of coaching experience), as well as the early GT and TCU losses. However, when some predicted 10 wins, I didn’t see them as being unrealistic. The seven win or less crowd were the ones I looked at as being either ignorant or plain negative. There would have had to have been the Bowden implosion repeat of last year.
There were the weaknesses that were exploited, of course,( linebackers off and on all season, receiver depth, offensive line depth at times, and qb inexperience) but the overall talent on the team and enthusiasm overcame this. I don’t buy into “the Atlantic” was weak excuse some throw out there. It’s the same Atlantic that FSU won nine games in 08, that BC won 10 in ‘07, and WF won 10 in ’06. C.J., Ford and Palmer picked up the slack for the Davis’s, Grisham’s and Kelly’s of the past with the year they had, and next year other players will have to do the same. We’ve seen that potential in Ellington, Harper and Allen this year.
Whether the coaching staff likes it or not, this nine win season has become the low mark of what you should be able to do while learning on the job and putting your system into place. Don’t even try to use “we don’t have Spiller” as an excuse, because it won’t be accepted by the fans. A 10 win season with a return to the championship game next year will be expected as the mark for improvement. You fix what is broken and tweak what you know should work. You replace the depth you lose with the recruiting class coming in and the players that are here now. If the coaches are capable, an appearance in the Orange Bowl is the next step in 2011; if you are good, you should be there in 2010.
by CTigers77 on Dec 28, 2009 1:23 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
I expect us to be Va Tech
10 wins is par, in the hunt every year, winning it fairly often, tough and competitive OOC, and developing NFL talent… and every now and then, the stars align and we are in the MNC hunt.
I expected that this year in spite of the new staff, though I didn’t predict it because I had to account for their inexperience and “learning on the job.” IMO, we fired Bowden not because he wrecked the program, but because he couldn’t get over the hump. If we hired a guy who needed a grace period, IMO, he shouldn’t have been hired at all.
by box125 on Dec 28, 2009 2:43 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I agree, and Clemson was like that back in the day (actually better).
I saw 10 wins as a real possibility as well. I thought that for the last 4 years, but the mentality was lacking from the top and it trickled down (more like rushed down like an avalanche every time and only held back because of talent and some individual efforts). I predicted 9, and thought 8 wins if they had a mental let down a couple of times in which one would result in a bad loss. Clemson had 2 losses that I feel should have been wins. The Maryland game was just bad because UMd tried to give the game away and Clemson said “no, you take it”. Against USC they just came out flat in every way and the coaching staff took the day off.
by CTigers77 on Dec 28, 2009 3:46 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Not really relevant to what we're talking about
But just to make you want to throw up, a pretty sickening statistic:
Here’s a list of teams currently in the ACC that have won at least 10 games in a season just since 2000:
Boston College (2x)
FSU (2x)
Georgia Tech
Maryland (3x)
Miami
NC State
VT (7x)
Wake Forest
That leaves Clemson (last in 1990), Duke, North Carolina (last in 1997; also in 1993 and 1996), and UVA (last in 1989).
Which also means every team in the ACC except duke and UVA has won 10 games since we last did
by box125 on Dec 29, 2009 12:41 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Also to add, about the grace period
Any coach would have to do a heck of a job to get great results,and there may have been a select few that could have. I won’t compare him to Saban, Brown or Meyer at this time because Dabo still is a green coach compare to those rsumes. Clemson has top 15 to 25 talent . But unless you have super talent ( a lot more Spiller’s and McDaniel’s) all across the board, then you won’t get it. Clemson has the talent to hang with all but maybe 6 teams out there right now, imo. The rest below that can be beaten (if the coaching is good.) That is why I look forward at the next 2 years. It will tell if he is the guy. Dabo got good results this year (and, yes, it could have been better, imo), great would have been the OB, outstanding would have been undefeated. Clemson’s talent is good, the potential could push it even further.
by CTigers77 on Dec 28, 2009 4:03 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
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